Being around numerous churches throughout my childhood i heard ALOT of doctrine and read ALOT of the bible. i have read the whole thing, although i come far from remembering it all of course. so i'm at this point starting to wonder about things i have heard in churches in the past as well as the present. if you're into debating and religious teaching, read on, cause that's what i'm getting into, and i am very much looking for opinions. And I know I may have missed certain verses and such so be free to bring them up. And I'm not saying every single person or every single church is like this... These are just some problems and generalizations from the churches I've been in and the people I've been around. So...
The first one is Homosexuality... most of you are probably like oh my god, how could she ever think this wouldn't be wrong. but just read. so here are the verses about homosexuality i found when searching biblegateway.com, new american standard version. And we'll stay in the New Testament cause too much of the Old Testament is considered not binding by today. Like cutting your beard and such. (So what is it useful for? That's an honest question.) Anyway, this is what I could find...
1 Cor. 6:9-11
9Or (A)do you not know that the unrighteous will not (B)inherit the kingdom of God? (C)Do not be deceived; (D)neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor [a]effeminate, nor homosexuals,
10nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will (E)inherit the kingdom of God.
11(F)Such were some of you; but you were (G)washed, but you were (H)sanctified, but you were (I)justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God.
1 Tim 1:8-11
8But we know that (Y)the Law is good, if one uses it lawfully,
9realizing the fact that (Z)law is not made for a righteous person, but for those who are lawless and (AA)rebellious, for the (AB)ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and (AC)profane, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers
10and (AD)immoral men and (AE)homosexuals and (AF)kidnappers and (AG)liars and (AH)perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to (AI)sound teaching,
11according to (AJ)the glorious gospel of (AK)the blessed God, with which I have been (AL)entrusted.
And then something i found interesting...
Rev 21:25
25In the daytime (for (BK)there will be no night there) (BL)its gates (BM)will never be closed;
26and (BN)they will bring the glory and the honor of the nations into it;
27and (BO)nothing unclean, and no one who practices abomination and lying, shall ever come into it, but only those whose names are (BP)written in the Lamb's book of life.
Ok so the last one had nothing to do with homosexuality... but it sure didn't like lying. It compared lying to an abomination, which it doesn't even do at least in new american standard version with homosexuality. I keyed in ABOMINATION, and never found anything in the New Testament about homosexuality. And even if it did, lying is at least equal to homosexuality. But yet if someone lies, they ask for forgiveness and they're fine... Homosexuals are rarely allowed in the church if they do not give up their homosexuality. But somone with a habitual lying problem would (in most churches) just be prayed for, but still accepted in the church. Not to mention all the lying and deceit that some churches actually ALLOW. So my point is, if you believe the bible, yes homosexuality is wrong, but how is it so much worse than lying when you look at it in the bible? And what about drunkards? That's clearly saying getting drunk is wrong... but many people don't follow or believe that. I just see very much judgement and such in the church, but when you look at it, the sins they are committing are completely equal to what they're condemning you or others for. If there's another explanation for this, please respond, because I'd like to see if anyone has any logical opinions, or if people simply are following what they've been taught and not what they say as in the Bible.
Ok, now what about men and women staying the night together or living together prior to marriage? i know people who actually (before i talked to them) thought that it said men and women could not live together in the Bible. Sorry, it does not. People say it's too much temptation... sorry it's not for some people and is for others. Therefore it's the couple's responsibility to see if they can handle that kind of temptation... It's NEVER mentioned in the Bible. If you think it's somewhere even hinted at, please show me. I'm serious, i've never read it. But yet the majority of churches call it "living in sin"... I knew one couple at church who was living together before marriage and the church was actually addressing it, because they were in leadership and it "looked bad"... If it's not in the Bible, your image isn't important.
Ok but what about fornication itself? I keyed just the word SEX... New American Standard
Romans 13:13
13Let us (A)behave properly as in the day, (B)not in carousing and drunkenness, not in sexual promiscuity and sensuality, not in strife and jealousy.
1 Thes. 4:3-7
3For this is the will of God, your sanctification; that is, that you (F)abstain from sexual immorality;
4that (G)each of you know how to possess his own [c](H)vessel in sanctification and (I)honor,
5not in (J)lustful passion, like the Gentiles who (K)do not know God;
6and that no man transgress and (L)defraud his brother (M)in the matter because (N)the Lord is the avenger in all these things, just as we also (O)told you before and solemnly warned you.
7For (P)God has not called us for (Q)the purpose of impurity, but in sanctification.
Ok so this is alot like the homosexuality... a sin but no different than any other sin. We shouldn't have sex before marriage and such. But how is it any different from say gossiping? yet that happens all the time in the church. But at least when I was growing up, the girl who ended up pregnant "fell away from God"... Are you fallen away from God cause you lied or gossiped? I just see alot of things that in the Bible are sins, but we make certain sins more bad cause of cultural views. And I think some people want to ignore their own sins... I think this sums it up well by Jesus...
Matt. 7:4
4How can you say to your brother, 'Let me take the speck out of your eye,' when all the time there is a plank in your own eye?
Ok but now I have a question that will probably annoy quite a few of my Christian friends, but it's rarely addressed in church so I would like an answer. How do we know that every word in the Bible is true? yes, i have found many truths in the Bible, and I believe Jesus is my savior due to my experience in prayer. But how do we know it's all true? most people will point me to this verse:
2 Tim 3:16-17
16(A)All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness;
17so that (B)the man of God may be adequate, (C)equipped for every good work.
But that proves absolutely nothing. You can't say I'm always right because I've been right a few times before and I say I'm always right so therefore I'm always right. I mean I am in no way saying Jesus and God are not real... proven many times before in my prayers and spiritual life. But I bet you alot of people are going to argue the points in this based on different versions... how do we know nothing got lost in translation? and how do we know that the people who put the Bible together were right in what they kept and what they left out? Some people tell me, well you have to have something to go on... That again proves nothing. You can't say oh i'd like to have something all true from God, so the Bible is all true, from God. ok now the next verse is a HUGE argument, but i like debate so i'm putting it in here.
Matt. 5:32
32(A)but I say to you that everyone who divorces his wife, except for the reason of unchastity, makes her commit adultery; and whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery.
And another...
1 Cor. 14:34
34The women are to (A)keep silent in the churches; for they are not permitted to speak, but (B)are to subject themselves, just as (C)the Law also says.
Ok now many many people in the church get divorces. In fact the statistics I've heard are that it is equal to the amount of non-church people. And they make it completely ok to remarry... they definitely do not put it on the level of adultery (cheating on your spouse). So by doing this churches are saying well this part isn't true, even though it's the words of Jesus... But yet they say the entire Bible is true. I find a problem with this. And then look at the second verse... women aren't allowed to even speak in church. But yet we have women teaching and pastoring, and I myself would have a problem with being discriminated against for being female. Yet it's here in the Bible in the book that some person somewhere chose to include.
Now I could be wrong... maybe the entire Bible is true, word for word... But HOW do you know? And why aren't most churches following those two and even more things? all i'm asking for... solid proof that the Bible is completely true. And remember I've been mentioning New Testament verses and not even delved into the Old Testament. If God created me, who as myself understands things by logic... I think he'd want me to use that logic that he created. So I have no problem with wanting a clear logical explanation for what I believe.
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